Curse

Crom The Pale · Dec 13, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

What it all boils down to is that somebody has come up with a creative way to use a skill from there secondary and your not happy because the counters for this combo, of which there are many, don't fit into your favorite build/proffesion.

To say that no proffesion should be able to use strong skills from there secondary is just pointless.

Shall we remove Heal party so that Elemental/monks can't sit well back of the fight and spam that?

Shall we remove Troll ungent so that Warrior/rangers don't have a great heal that can't be removed?

How about every class that takes elemental as a secondary to use Glyph of Lesser Energy???

Mesmers, Necros and Assasins all have exellent counters for this and a well timed Broad Head arrow could daze and totaly blow the casting of all there enchantments with ease.

Would moving it really hurt the Dervish? No.

But since the main reason you all want this moved is so that you don't have to use a counter for the builds that incorporate it you do not have any good reason for this move.

On a side note what is really funny is that there is a thread to keep the DoA as hard as it is for those that love a challenge, a thread to nerf Searing Flames for being to good of an offencive spell and this one to take away a great defencive spell.

Irony makes the world go round I guess...

lyra_song · Dec 13, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

What it all boils down to is that somebody has come up with a creative way to use a skill from there secondary and your not happy because the counters for this combo, of which there are many, don't fit into your favorite build/proffesion.

To say that no proffesion should be able to use strong skills from there secondary is just pointless.

Shall we remove Heal party so that Elemental/monks can't sit well back of the fight and spam that?

Shall we remove Troll ungent so that Warrior/rangers don't have a great heal that can't be removed?

How about every class that takes elemental as a secondary to use Glyph of Lesser Energy???

Mesmers, Necros and Assasins all have exellent counters for this and a well timed Broad Head arrow could daze and totaly blow the casting of all there enchantments with ease.

Would moving it really hurt the Dervish? No.

But since the main reason you all want this moved is so that you don't have to use a counter for the builds that incorporate it you do not have any good reason for this move.

On a side note what is really funny is that there is a thread to keep the DoA as hard as it is for those that love a challenge, a thread to nerf Searing Flames for being to good of an offencive spell and this one to take away a great defencive spell.

Irony makes the world go round I guess...

Crom, you fail to see the OP's point of view.

The OP uses this skill and knows how powerful it is.

This isnt a "This skill is too strong, i cant beat it, lets nerf it."

This is a "This skill is too strong, I cant be beat with it, lets nerf it."

Heal Party is not overpowered at all (high cost for such low heal, no divine favor help, only good in large parties).

Troll unguent is not overpowered (short duration, long casting).

Glyph of Lesser energy is HARDLY overpowered (long recharge).

This skill costs 10 energy with a 5 second recharge, with the scaling requiring only 8 points to max it out.

-----------
On the DOA thing, thats not PVP related at all.
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This isnt a "cry nerf" based on a single skill. Its based on possible abusable skill combinations.

imo:

Shield of Absorption will be nerfed.
Aggressive Refrain will be nerfed.
Searing Flames will be nerfed.
Mystic Regen will be nerfed.

oh i mean "rebalanced". ;P

Lordhelmos · Dec 13, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Seriously just try the Stoneflesh Aura or E/D searing build, its so obviously overpowered. Searing flames with permanant +9 regen? I mean come on... its too easy. Its just funny when a necromancer unloads his whole degen bar on me and my lifebar suffers maybe -1 degen whlie I staight zorch him with SF.

And what are you going to do? Shatter or rend me? I'll just throw aura of restoration back up and gg.

Oh wait a full rend? I can just recast aura of restoration and mystic regen and maintain a +6 instantly.

ZORTENATOR · Dec 13, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

I once had to fight a ele with kinetic armor, silver armor, and that Mystic Regeneration. She was immortal. The whole Kurzick team(It was in AB) attacked her and she didnt take any dmg + if she did she healed ultra fast.
/SIGNED

Lordhelmos · Dec 13, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

On a side note what is really funny is that there is a thread to keep the DoA as hard as it is for those that love a challenge, a thread to nerf Searing Flames for being to good of an offencive spell and this one to take away a great defencive spell.

Irony makes the world go round I guess...

What? A bit hypocritical that you shoot down every call for a "rebalance" yet whine about DoA being too hard.... there goes your credibility.

Lordhelmos · Dec 13, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZORTENATOR

I once had to fight a ele with kinetic armor, silver armor, and that Mystic Regeneration. She was immortal. The whole Kurzick team(It was in AB) attacked her and she didnt take any dmg + if she did she healed ultra fast.
/SIGNED

Hahah maybe that was me, I run that build. I made some tweaks and change it to obs flame, sandstorm, sliver armor, armor of earth, stoneflesh, mystic regen, conviction, and earth attune.

+63 armor
+20 armor
-spell cost with attune
-33 damage on hit
+50% evasion and damage reflection
+FIFTEEEN FREAKING REGEN

Sandstorm kills, and obs flame finishes. That and its all easy to maintain. I'll tell you, its really hard to die using that setup. AB is a joke now. I can mow right through MM's and watch as their minions target me and get everyone slivered. I mean i was stacked conjure nightmare, SS, bleeding, set on fire, had two warriors attacking me, and an army of minions around me and my life bar didn't budge. It's insane.

Tony Blair · Dec 13, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

When a team's only option in a GvG is to send back an Avatar of Grenth, or a Monk, or a Dom Mes and one or two others with interrupts to deal with the E/D ganker, there is a problem.

/signed

Although a lot of the problem is related to Stoneflesh Aura tbh. Only a few things really stop the E/D: interrupts/daze -- universal counters, or mass enchant removal, aka Grenth (which also needs a nerf btw).

Renegade26 · Dec 13, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Less nerf; More mesmer

Zuranthium · Dec 13, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Hahah maybe that was me, I run that build. I made some tweaks and change it to obs flame, sandstorm, sliver armor, armor of earth, stoneflesh, mystic regen, conviction, and earth attune.

#1 - You are playing some HELLA shitty people if they are dying from just Sandstorm + Obs Flame.

#2 - Your old build of Sandstorm + Shock + Aftershock wouldn't kill anyone by itself either, although it least you had the knockdown to keep them in the storm (if they are standing in the same spot while you cast it anyway).

#3 - Your Searing Flames build with Conviction + Aura + Mystic Regen as defensive is hardly something that can't be pounded through.

~Z

MorpheusDV · Dec 13, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade26

Less nerf; More mesmer

Or an Assassin with Assault Enchantments

Dragonious · Dec 14, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

/gaze of contempt

Carth` · Dec 14, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

imo:

Shield of Absorption will be nerfed.
Aggressive Refrain will be nerfed.
Searing Flames will be nerfed.
Mystic Regen will be nerfed.

oh i mean "rebalanced". ;P

Yep. Although I think SF will be left alone, yes it is powerful, but I don't think it's overpowered. I think Avatar of Grenth will be nerfed.

Flopjack · Dec 14, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

How dare they make a Dervish enchantment rely on enchantments. It's as if you may have to ulilize Enchantment removals or something. That is crazy talk!

Skills like this make skills like Rend Enchantments or Envenom Enchantments stronger, or how about Tranquility? I don't see a problem with a skill giving a caster +9 or so health regeneration, especially when this requires about half your skill bar to be enchantments to use.

Crom The Pale · Dec 14, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

What? A bit hypocritical that you shoot down every call for a "rebalance" yet whine about DoA being too hard.... there goes your credibility.

Ummm... maybe you should read the thread in question first...i'm on the side of keeping it a challange.

And as to my not liking to see skill changes that are only justified by pvp players that tend to lack the creativity to find a better solution.

I call that common sense.

glountz · Dec 14, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

/signed for my own doom (I use this overpowered skill on my own)
I used this skill with a bond monk, you know, the ol' ones. Grossely overpowered as I could .bond myself being at +9. If ennemies had no massive enchant removal (I said massive, one shot enchant removal are not a threat).
Still, I'm not that fond of "nerfing". BUT this skill has an ultra high duration, the shortest cat time available, and a ridiculous energy cost and recharge. It can be used as a cover enchant in addition of being uninterruptable and can be spammed in case of enchant removal.
Put it in Mysticism wouldn't solve entirely the problem I think.
Just increase cast time to 1 or 2 seconds so it can be largely interrupted, and the duration to 10 (like Healing breeze).

Deleet · Dec 14, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Ummm... maybe you should read the thread in question first...i'm on the side of keeping it a challange.

And as to my not liking to see skill changes that are only justified by pvp players that tend to lack the creativity to find a better solution.

I call that common sense.

You know..

PvP balance > PvE balance.

People don't make money on PvE. GW main focus is PvP, therefore PvP is top priority.

Even while i love playing a dervish (with 8 in earth for MR), I would rather have it moved to Mysticism. It it actually a buff to dervishes.

frojack · Dec 14, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

It is indeed powerful, but I really think a lot of people need to go and take a look at all the enchantment hate available in the game. A simple Rend would ruin your day completely. Shatter would hurt your feelings also. Expunge, Rending Touch, Grenth, Inspired, Gaze, theres so many. If people don't wanna' bring enchantment hate that's their business I guess.
Still, it's powerful for sure. I personally don't think it needs nerfing to be honest. If anything, perhaps a 'pip' adjustment? Who knows...

bhavv · Dec 14, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

/UNSIGNED

FFS GO LOOK AT SHATTER STORM UNDER NO ATTRIBUTES.

Enchant removal exists in uber elite form to counter this nonsence. I play elly, and still havnt got far enough into nightfall to get this skill, but I want to be able to use it to FARM. Ellys are no where near as good as warriors and monks and maybe other classes at solo farming, now they are. Please leave it as it is for solo farming.

Again, if your bothered about it being used in PVP:

SHATTER STORM
SCOURGE ENCHANTMENT
ENCHANTERS CONUNDRUM
AIR OF DISENCHANTMENT

And whatever countless encounters there already are that no one ever bothers using.

Seriously, I see lots of ppl in RA with the E/D build, yet not a single mesmer bothers to use elite enchantment counters. Absolutely ridiculous.

Do not move this skill into mystisism, reduce the recharge time on shatter storm to 3-5 seconds per enchantment removed instead

Faer · Dec 14, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Playing as a Mesmer, I have had no trouble dispatching targets using this spell.
Playing as a Necromancer, I have had no trouble dispatching targets using this spell.
Playing as a Warrior, I have had little trouble dispatching targets using this spell.
Playing as a Ranger, I have had little trouble dispatching targets using this spell.
Playing as an Assassin, I have had some trouble dispatching targets using this spell.
Playing as a Monk or Ritualist, I have had no trouble supporting my team while they dispatched of targets using this spell.
I have not played as an Elementalist enough to face targets using this spell while playing the profession, and therefore I will not comment on the possible difficulties of such.

I do not currently own Nightfall, so I am a bit out of the new skills loop, so to speak. I do however pay attention to details, and I am well aware of how the new spells and skills do and do not work. What many people don't seem to realise is that an Elementalist with +9 Health Regeneration is just an Elementalist with a bit of Healing Breeze (which is mostly worthless). As has been stated previously, the major problem is the damage reduction from Stoneflesh Aura combined with that health regeneration. However, both can be done away with quickly and easily by any number of means, so they are not really "overpowered" as much as they are "annoying to deal with". If they are really such a terrible bother, perhaps more people should bring enchantment removal to battle with them, or have their team bring it if the circumstances allow. There are also other ways to punish those who pile enchantments upon themselves (should be fairly obvious this far into the game). Guild Wars is a team game, after all, and if you can not find a way to defeat such a basic build/spell with your entire team, then perhaps you should reevaluate your strategic standings.

To be completely honest, I do not see what the fuss is about here. However, logic does seem to dictate that a change in placement of this particular spell would be in order, given the name of the spell and it's nature. So, therefore...

/signed (out of logic, not out of necessity)

bhavv · Dec 14, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

To clarify, I just tried it on a searing flames elly with Fire attunement, aura of res and mystic regen in RA. I got pwned in under 5 seconds by a dervish and assasin with bleeding and poisen.

This skill is just the same thing as healing breeze, its better because it can only be cast on the caster and not on other allys. Seems fair enough to me.

Earth ellys are overpowered because of the amount of damage reduction they have. Heres a simple counter -

Signet of humility = GG sandstorm
Diversion/backfire = GG useless stone dagger spam
Any elite enchant removal and scourge enchantment = DEAD.

Learn to play PVP before complaining that mystic regeneration is overpowered in PVP. In reality its as useless in PVP as healing breeze is.